Insights into the cause of PSSD

[Timm Thaler]

@Blauwasser
thank you so much for your inovative ideas, your thorough explanations and your patience. It is exciting research and who knows if it leads to a paradigm shift someday.

[Jaxx]

In theory there are most likely traceable blood values commonly connected to PSSD. But these parameters tend to be the mediator of a condition and rarely the cause of it. Further, in the case of PSSD I believe that a disturbed Nitritoxid cycle is involved in the symptomatic and I am not aware of any common medical diagnostic procedure for that hormone.

I am new to this forum and not familiar with Ravens progress.

Blauwasser

FYI viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2254

[been_too_long]

Something that is quite dear to me and that I want to mention is that I understand now that I might have upset some people; It really was not my intention. Therefore, I would really like it if we could further on manage to keep up a friendly and respectful atmosphere; This topic is quite important to me.

Blauwasser

I agree, lets keep this discussion friendly and on topic. Also note that several recoveries from the past could not be explained well, without questioning the cure or progress itself. Everyone can choose to be skeptical of course, but do so please without crossing boundaries.

I don't see where a line has been crossed. Blasuwasser and moonwife can have their disagreement all day on how to interpret studies and research but its all academic for the rest of us down here on the ground floor. It is pretty simple; when I was out in the field sighting in, I was not listening or privy to the top brass and intelligence's discussion, arguments, debates or whatever you want to call it. The only thing that matter to be was hearing "you have the green light" so I could take the kill shot. So far nothing said has given us little PSSD soldiers that kill shot order. There is no reason to pull the trigger... quite to the contrary.

Nothing has been provided to explain how microbiomals can cause our symptoms. Show me!! Show me the suggestion much less proof that they cause lack of orgasm? lack of skin sensation? lack of libido? emotional blunting? (that is the only one that can be inferred by some theories but not established) The only thing that can be explained by them is diarrhea and constipation. Funny thing on that. Twice it as been eluded to "considerate number of people with PSSD suffer from various degrees of either of those conditions." Hmmmm I just spent a hour with a web crawler going thru introduction posts and guess what.... its NOT there. That statement was grasped from the air. Sure people can say "yeah I experienced that but forgot to include it." But it is well established in pretty much all fields of medicine that when a patient hears of a symptom their mind matches it as something they experienced. If it was truly one the symptoms we would of heard of it all along. All these comments of how promising this idea is are based on what???? Desperation because we have not made much.. hell ANY headway so far?

So we are right back at square one. Based on someone's "gut feeling" (no pun intended) we are to consider such a radical and dangerous avenue. If want me to stop being such a staunch critic of such pseudo science; then ban me from the forums. When I was told I was being overly negative and take skepticism to a whole new level for calling the claim of antifungal meds curing us to be hogwash, I stated for everyone to run out and take them to prove me wrong and lets see if this forum was still around 2 months latter. Well.. forum still here. I was blasted for saying the idea of taking freaking chemo drugs was idiotic. Hey how many here ran out and tried it to come back with claims it cured them? Someone has to try to be the voice of reason and stop us from following every fairy goose chase out there. We are repeatedly, repeatedly, fing repeatedly getting distracted from directing our efforts to something that could pay off.

Multiple times in this thread it was mentioned that others have been cured by something that cant be explained by medicine. Well that's right, they cant be explained because they are hogwash and deep down inside we all know it. The only report that can be considered credible is Bunny's case IMO. Instead of chasing other rainbows (which we know are illusions) we should be dissecting her recovery over and over till find and understand the mechanism. (to note, I consider raven's situation an enigma separate from all the others)

[Blauwasser]

I am sorry for the delay, but I was pretty occupied. So these are some of my thoughts on the microbiome as a reasonable explanation for PSSD. I kept it simple and did not inclued any anectotal evidence. Please have a first look and contribute your thoughts, ideas and objections.

I believe that most manifistations of sexual disorders are more or less related and are essentially different projections of the same neurophysiological and hormonal networks. These networks also provide a possible route through which both the body and the microbiome can interact and influence each other. For instant, the microbiome itself strongly aids the production of neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine and others like nitricoxide, which suggests a possible influence on sexual problems.

https://www.dovepress.com/recent-findin ... ticle-PLMI

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5772764/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6061125/

https://www.genengnews.com/gen-news-hig ... /81251136/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 142536.htm

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5615000655


It has been shown that bacteria can influence sexual hormon levels

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3879365/

and might even play a role in sexual preference

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27077120/


Furthermore, a microbiomal link has been found between an increasing number of chronic deseases including psychiatric diseases like

major depression - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9115001105

anxiety disorder - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30029052

schizophrenia - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=iwbp20

bipolar disorder - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5616307725

posttraumatic stress disorder - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4794957/


and various others like for example

diabetes - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25901889

alzheimers -https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13601-y

arthritis - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4789258/

(There are numerous more),


and in addition to a microbiomal association, all of these diseases display a high prevalence for sexual dysfunction as an additional commonality.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26003261

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16809251

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3949699/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4616558/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4017303/


Moreover, various medications that are knwon to cause sexual dysfunctions are also associated with changes in the composition of the microbiome.

https://www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5347(05)01000-1/fulltext

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4754147/

Taking all this data into account I believe it is well justified to consider the possibility that the gut microbiome itself contributes to the development of sexual disorders and I cannot see a logical reason why this should not be true for PSSD as well. Additionally, it might explain why PSSD is so long-lasting and sometimes apparently permanent.
In every case of PSSD people already displayed symptoms connected to chronic diseases (for the most part psychiatric), prior to the treatment with antidepressants. In accordance with the provided literature it is therefore reasonable to assume that at the onset of antidepressant treatment a dysbiosis of the microbiome is already present.
The appearing problem now is, that many antidepressants themself possess antimicrobial properties, which further changes the gut bacterial compositon.

antimicrobial - http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script= ... 0000300014

antibacterial - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13678830

antifungal - https://academic.oup.com/jac/article/48/6/775/743783

Additionally, through their mode of action antidepressants like SSRIs profoundly interfere with the neurochemical system, which further influences the gut bacterial composition, as I have mentioned above. Since antidepressants are genrally prescribed for considerable long durations (months, up to years) it makes sense to assume that the microbiome progresses to degenerate, meanwhile producing an increasing number of side effects, and eventually reaching a point from which it cannot easily return to its original equilibrium - This part is admittedly speculative, but there is evidence showing that the equilibrium of the micriobiome can permanently change; I try to find it again later.
This theory also provides explanation for why some people do not achieve remission of PSSD on certain remedies while others improve significantly, as well as why for some this condition disappears naturally over time. Furthermore, it explains why some unfortunate people develop PSSD already after short time exposure to antidepressants; In all cases, the individual status of the microbiome differs greatly in composition between people. That leads to variations in the microbiomal dynamics and response to medications.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5045146/


Thank you for your patience.

Blauwasser

[Jaxx]

Something that is quite dear to me and that I want to mention is that I understand now that I might have upset some people; It really was not my intention. Therefore, I would really like it if we could further on manage to keep up a friendly and respectful atmosphere; This topic is quite important to me.

Blauwasser

I agree, lets keep this discussion friendly and on topic. Also note that several recoveries from the past could not be explained well, without questioning the cure or progress itself. Everyone can choose to be skeptical of course, but do so please without crossing boundaries.

I don't see where a line has been crossed. Blasuwasser and moonwife can have their disagreement all day on how to interpret studies and research but its all academic for the rest of us down here on the ground floor. It is pretty simple; when I was out in the field sighting in, I was not listening or privy to the top brass and intelligence's discussion, arguments, debates or whatever you want to call it. The only thing that matter to be was hearing "you have the green light" so I could take the kill shot. So far nothing said has given us little PSSD soldiers that kill shot order. There is no reason to pull the trigger... quite to the contrary.

Nothing has been provided to explain how microbiomals can cause our symptoms. Show me!! Show me the suggestion much less proof that they cause lack of orgasm? lack of skin sensation? lack of libido? emotional blunting? (that is the only one that can be inferred by some theories but not established) The only thing that can be explained by them is diarrhea and constipation. Funny thing on that. Twice it as been eluded to "considerate number of people with PSSD suffer from various degrees of either of those conditions." Hmmmm I just spent a hour with a web crawler going thru introduction posts and guess what.... its NOT there. That statement was grasped from the air. Sure people can say "yeah I experienced that but forgot to include it." But it is well established in pretty much all fields of medicine that when a patient hears of a symptom their mind matches it as something they experienced. If it was truly one the symptoms we would of heard of it all along. All these comments of how promising this idea is are based on what???? Desperation because we have not made much.. hell ANY headway so far?

So we are right back at square one. Based on someone's "gut feeling" (no pun intended) we are to consider such a radical and dangerous avenue. If want me to stop being such a staunch critic of such pseudo science; then ban me from the forums. When I was told I was being overly negative and take skepticism to a whole new level for calling the claim of antifungal meds curing us to be hogwash, I stated for everyone to run out and take them to prove me wrong and lets see if this forum was still around 2 months latter. Well.. forum still here. I was blasted for saying the idea of taking freaking chemo drugs was idiotic. Hey how many here ran out and tried it to come back with claims it cured them? Someone has to try to be the voice of reason and stop us from following every fairy goose chase out there. We are repeatedly, repeatedly, fing repeatedly getting distracted from directing our efforts to something that could pay off.

Multiple times in this thread it was mentioned that others have been cured by something that cant be explained by medicine. Well that's right, they cant be explained because they are hogwash and deep down inside we all know it. The only report that can be considered credible is Bunny's case IMO. Instead of chasing other rainbows (which we know are illusions) we should be dissecting her recovery over and over till find and understand the mechanism. (to note, I consider raven's situation an enigma separate from all the others)

1. I didnt say lines were crossed here already, i just asked to keep the discussion friendly and on topic, without crossing borders. Glad you agree
2. I dont see why Maxbook's recovery with prami or Beetlebums recovery with SJW would be "hogwash". Feel free to disagree.

[marsupial]

Blauwasser thanks for your willingnes to share your luck with us. I wonder did pssd symptoms improved gradualy during your stool transplant treatment or it all happened on the end? In my country stool transplant is only allowed for a few certain conditions. How did you manage to get it even more than just once..? You live in Germany? Who was your donor someone from your family?

[Blauwasser]

Blauwasser thanks for your willingnes to share your luck with us. I wonder did pssd symptoms improved gradualy during your stool transplant treatment or it all happened on the end? In my country stool transplant is only allowed for a few certain conditions. How did you manage to get it even more than just once..? You live in Germany? Who was your donor someone from your family?

Thanks for your question.
First, I need to point out that this is a procedure needs to be considered very carefully; No one should do it irresponsibly, since there are efforts, possible inconveniences and especially risks involved. It is imperative to test your donor for a variety of infectious diseases. Furthermore, the donor should not suffer from any kind of disease. Other than I said before, if you have a doctor that you strongly trust, then you should consider consulting him/her first.

To answer your questions, it was a good friend of mine, so someone that I knew well, who offered being my donor (Studies suggest that family members a good donors, but in my family there was no one who qualified for it). Since I suspected that one treatment might not be enough, I told him from the very beginning that over the time I might need more than one sample and he kindly approved. I reasoned that it is probably more efficient to use a sample in small amounts over time rather than using one whole sample in one treatment; For that and various other reasons I chose to freeze my samples whenever I obtained them. That made the handling much easier and pleasant and I could keep the specimens stored for as long as I needed to; In fact, I still keep some in my freezer, just in case.
Whenever I took a sample I experience an instant, but short lasting improvement in sexual functioning during the first and second day, which always subsided during the following days. I performed several FMT over a duration of roughly two or three month. The PSSD symptoms did not really improve gradually. Initially nothing happened for a while. Then it took on a rather oscillating pattern; I began having improved performance for couple of days, which was followed by several days of dysfunction again. And then after a while the recovery lasted. About a month later, I remember eating a lot of honey and I suddenly relapsed. The next few days I took some more samples and my performance turned to normal again.

I hope I could help.

Blauwasser

[marsupial]

Ok but there is no restriction in Germany for this procedure? You just walk in doctors office and ask for that?

[Blauwasser]

I do not know if and how it is precisely regulated in germany; While the FDA seems to be quite clear about it, I believe it is a less clear matter in germany. There are only very view places that have applied this treatment and only for the very specific case of C.diff. related chronic diarrhea. I am afraid that at this point no doctor will seriously consider this treatment for other disorders or diseases. That was one of the reason why I began experimenting on my own. When I came up with that theory about four years ago no doctor that I spoke to had any comprehensive idea about the microbiome; All of them preferred putting my symptoms off as a psychosomatic manifestation rather than considering an explanation that diverges from established medical theory. Therefore, I am afraid that it is hardly beneficial to walk into a doctors office and ask for it.

Blauwasser

[marsupial]

I still dont understand. I am sorry. So you did all the procedure by yourself?