AR shift

[Jaxx]

I see a couple of threads in parallel, werent you also trying dxm?

[taarn]

@Psychogenesis why are you so sure Nandrolone downregulates AR? As far as my readings go, T and androgenic steroids upregulate AR expression in the hypothalamus, especially the mPOA. They restored AR expression in rat's mPOA after castration, it took 3 weeks.
Also I think we can't be sure about AR/ER ratio, probably those two are downregulated/silenced.

But anyway, hats off to you, I was considering doing something similar, with some other twists.

For example IGF-1 seems to activate AR signaling, maybe combining androgens with IGF-1 would do something, or IGF-1 by itself. But real IGF-1 is very expensive, and kinda dangerous.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17202144

Also I was considering adding progesterone antagonists to androgens.

Additionally, my friends who took stanozolol + T propionate became very horny and had something called "super-orgasm". They said the super orgasm mostly remained even after finishing the cycle, that means permanently upregulated AR imo.

[PsychoGenesis]

@Psychogenesis why are you so sure Nandrolone downregulates AR? As far as my readings go, T and androgenic steroids upregulate AR expression in the hypothalamus, especially the mPOA. They restored AR expression in rat's mPOA after castration, it took 3 weeks.
Also I think we can't be sure about AR/ER ratio, probably those two are downregulated/silenced.



For example IGF-1 seems to activate AR signaling, maybe combining androgens with IGF-1 would do something, or IGF-1 by itself. But real IGF-1 is very expensive, and kinda dangerous.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17202144

Also I was considering adding progesterone antagonists to androgens.

Additionally, my friends who took stanozolol + T propionate became very horny and had something called "super-orgasm". They said the super orgasm mostly remained even after finishing the cycle, that means permanently upregulated AR imo.

https://sci-hub.tw/https://onlinelibrar ... 09.00439.x

yeah reading this paper again i may have extrapolated, but it's an uneducated guess that the same way a DHT rebound is supposed to have silenced the AR i think any strong androgen in high dosages should do the same, otherwise people would grow indefinitely on steroid cycles...

But anyway, hats off to you, I was considering doing something similar, with some other twists.

please share it , i was considering progesterone antagonists too, have mifepristone on hand

For example IGF-1 seems to activate AR signaling, maybe combining androgens with IGF-1 would do something, or IGF-1 by itself. But real IGF-1 is very expensive, and kinda dangerous.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17202144

we have mk-677 also

I see a couple of threads in parallel, werent you also trying dxm?

i did for 2 weeks without improvement
but the effects i got before nandrolone from dxm/bupropion are gone, i've read nandro decreases dorsal raphe 5ht firing or downregulates it, so i decided to get over with the nandro protocol once for all

[taarn]

@Psychogenesis
People don't grow indefinitely because of the upregulation of myostatin in response to muscle growth, not because of AR silencing/downregulation.

Yes probably AR rebound can silence the AR signaling, but I still don't understand what would unsilence it. If you combine finasteride and nandrolone that would mean further bombing your AR with potent androgens.

About mk-677: Did you measure your IGF-1 levels? I think we need pharma grade IGF-1 and possibly high dose.
Another interesting fact is that I had above range IGF-1 levels when I checked, without taking steroids. Good question if it's simply downregulation or silenced signaling, or some mutated AR.

[PsychoGenesis]

@Psychogenesis
People don't grow indefinitely because of the upregulation of myostatin in response to muscle growth, not because of AR silencing/downregulation.

i've only seen studies showing AR upregulation done in vitro, also the study i posted showed downregulation but it was dose-dependent, maybe it's a question of which androgens you're using and it's metabolites idk

Yes probably AR rebound can silence the AR signaling, but I still don't understand what would unsilence it. If you combine finasteride and nandrolone that would mean further bombing your AR with potent androgens.

the plan is withdrawing finasteride after 4 weeks causing an aggressive shift, from high androgen to low androgen(exactly the opposite that fina with testosterone does)

About mk-677: Did you measure your IGF-1 levels? I think we need pharma grade IGF-1 and possibly high dose.
Another interesting fact is that I had above range IGF-1 levels when I checked, without taking steroids. Good question if it's simply downregulation or silenced signaling, or some mutated AR.

true that mk only increases igf withing the physiological range, only thing you can do is causing a shift in natural production with something like metformin but i don't put much faith on that

[taarn]

the plan is withdrawing finasteride after 4 weeks causing an aggressive shift, from high androgen to low androgen(exactly the opposite that fina with testosterone does)

This plan actually presumes that 5-ar activity is still normal. What comes to my mind is that 5-ar can have a shift in affinity towards progesterone, or 5-ar levels can be reduced, and you won't get the normal amount of DHN. Testosterone won't do too much, cause natural T production is shut, right?

I don't want to criticize, don't get me wrong, I'm just thinking about possibilites.

Stanozolol also has a very low androgenic ratio, maybe we can go straight for stanozolol, without finasteride. Another thing I was thinking about is Enzalutamide, it even seems to have significant activity in CNS, blocking the AR in the brain would probably cause upregulation or restoration of signaling I guess.

I'm really curious about your results and hope it will work for you!

[PsychoGenesis]

This plan actually presumes that 5-ar activity is still normal. What comes to my mind is that 5-ar can have a shift in affinity towards progesterone, or 5-ar levels can be reduced, and you won't get the normal amount of DHN. Testosterone won't do too much, cause natural T production is shut, right?

I don't want to criticize, don't get me wrong, I'm just thinking about possibilites.

Stanozolol also has a very low androgenic ratio, maybe we can go straight for stanozolol, without finasteride. Another thing I was thinking about is Enzalutamide, it even seems to have significant activity in CNS, blocking the AR in the brain would probably cause upregulation or restoration of signaling I guess.

I'm really curious about your results and hope it will work for you!

I've done bloodwork couple months ago and dht was on the high end, test was not shutdown but was almost 100% freed up from shbg

but I'll only be sure of that plan in the next couple days if i get another window like last time, I'm still not sure it was not from dxm/bup....

it's risky but my condition is so shitty at this point, lethargy, sleepiness, weakness, ED etc
can't even eat nice things bc of IBS


I've heard of bicalutemide too but where can you find it??
----------------------------------
edit:

maybe trenbolone/mirepristone is a safer way to test the AR theory

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14593076/

[PsychoGenesis]

https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1016/0960-0760(95)00056-6

[Meso]

Which location do you want to affect AR expression doing this? genital tissues? the hypothalamus? limbic system in general?

[PsychoGenesis]

Which location do you want to affect AR expression doing this? genital tissues? the hypothalamus? limbic system in general?

i don't know

tried applying methyltrienolone(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC425458/) with dmso on my penis couple weeks ago but i guess it should be done regularly, what do you think??


reading more about PFS it seems rather riskier than PSSD long term, im thinking about trying other hormonal approaches like trenbolone/mifepristone, a boldenone only blast or stanozolol like @taarn mentioned...im open to try any hormone people think is useful with data to back it


only found 1 report on propeciahelp of a guy ''feeling great'' after a shot of boldenone, it's a testosterone-derived hormone with 50% of test aromatization and a powerful 5ar metabolite called DHB, but overall it has a low androgenic activity