Zinc

[gatogordito]

I am having frequent windows of 100% recovery while taking zinc.

First off, I've lurked here for a long time but never posted so I'll give a brief history of my PSSD. I've been on and off antidepressants from when I was 14 until I was 24 years old. I always experienced sexual side effects, but they usually subsided after stopping medication. But in 2009 I was taking Cymbalta when I experienced a sudden complete loss of sexual functioning. I stopped cold turkey, and unfortunately I never recovered. Like many others, my problems go beyond just the sexual. I have severe anhedonia, I no longer feel euphoria from drugs or alcohol, and I just don't feel like myself.

I tried many different supplements and drugs over the years, but nothing ever seemed to really help. I've been working out regularly for a couple years, eating healthy and just trying to do everything possible to improve it. But I had sort of given up on trying to fix it and just do my best to ignore it.

I first started taking zinc picolinate (50 mg elemental zinc) in November last year to help improve my skin. Within three months my skin was extremely clear, so it definitely helped there, but I noticed my anhedonia and PSSD were much worse. At the time I attributed it to winter depression, but I realized later that there was more to it than that. I was about to run out and I decided to not take it anymore. Within 24-48 hours of taking my last dose, I noticed a pleasurable tingling feeling in the back of my head that I hadn't felt since I've had PSSD. Music was suddenely enjoyable again, I was waking up with morning wood, orgasms were pleasureable and I just felt normal for the first time in six years. It felt like a switch in the back of my brain was flipped on. This lasted for about 1-2 weeks, but eventually things returned back to the usual PSSD (but not as bad as while taking the picolinate) and my skin flared up again. After this I was convinced zinc plays a critical role in PSSD (at least in my case) and decided to research and experiment.

Zinc plays an important role in the brain. One study shows that zinc increases the uptake of serotonin in the corpus callosum, cingulate cortex, and raphe nucleus (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15723351). The raphe nucleus plays an important part in the reward circuit of the brain, so there could be something to this.

Another study shows that high zinc supplementation can actually lower zinc levels within the brain (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23383172). Zinc picolinate is highly bioavailable, so I thought maybe I was getting too much zinc. There are many different zinc complexes out there, so I decided to buy a few and try different doses. I've now tried three different chelates: zinc picolinate, zinc gluconate, and zinc monomethionine (optizinc).

Zinc monomethionine seems to affect me the same as the zinc picolinate, even at 30 mg. Within four hours of taking it I get a headache and PSSD symptoms worsen. However, it seems the following day if I don't take a dose I experience a temporary 100% recovery.

Zinc gluconate is only one that causes improvement while I'm taking it. I started taking 30 mg every other day for a week, then I moved up to once per day. I must be extremely sensitive to zinc, because I noticed changes within an hour after taking a dose. I get windows of near 100% recovery that can last for a few hours, but it's not quite as good as when stopping picolinate or optizinc. But outside of the windows, I still feel about 60% recovered. I'm getting morning wood everyday and orgasms are much better. I tried 60 mg for a couple days and I felt a little worse, so I decided I'll stick with 30 mg for awhile and see if with time I can keep improving. I also have some zinc glycinate that I may try.

I should also mention the other supplements I am taking:
Now Ultra Omega-3 - 2 g
Now Magnesium Citrate - 400 mg
Optimum Nutrition Creatine - 5 g
Now Vitamin D3 - 5,000 IU

The zinc gluconate that I'm taking is Nature Made Zinc 30 mg.

[Sonny]

If zinc helps, the problem is testosterone. Take some tribulus and do some weightlifting too. That will increase it even more. That combination should do wonders for you.

[iggy131313]

Hmm the fact that you get worse taking zinc and feel better after could suggest a couple of things.....

one possibility is that zinc actually acts as an antagonist at the autoreceptor, therefore you feel worse while taking it, but on stopping you have upregulation which is transient.....worth looking into whether this might be the case....I hope some pthers try this also

[pete]

Be careful with vitamin d!! After high dosing i felt like on too much ssri again.

[iggy131313]

it really does make sense that if zinc enhances the reuptake of serotonin in the raphe nuclei at over 60% as it says here...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15723351

then it would figure that you would feel worse while taking it, as your getting less activation on 5ht1a...and as we would figure less activation on those receptors, upregulation, hence when you stop you feel the benefits of that upregulation.....

this is really exciting news and I hope others get on board and give it a go, it reinforces what Ive been saying everyday on here, using a far more potent antagonist rather than something mild like zinc and then stopping, THAT would be amazing

[gatogordito]

If zinc helps, the problem is testosterone. Take some tribulus and do some weightlifting too. That will increase it even more. That combination should do wonders for you.

Yeah, I'd say testosterone definitely plays a part. However, I had my levels checked a few years back and the doctor said they were within normal range (I wish I would've asked for actual numbers though!). I have been lifting for a couple years now and it definitely improves my mood and libido.

Be careful with vitamin d!! After high dosing i felt like on too much ssri again.

I wasn't aware this could be a problem. It definitely helps in the winter. Don't know if it's doing much now that I'm getting more sunlight.

it really does make sense that if zinc enhances the reuptake of serotonin in the raphe nuclei at over 60% as it says here...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15723351

then it would figure that you would feel worse while taking it, as your getting less activation on 5ht1a...and as we would figure less activation on those receptors, upregulation, hence when you stop you feel the benefits of that upregulation.....

this is really exciting news and I hope others get on board and give it a go, it reinforces what Ive been saying everyday on here, using a far more potent antagonist rather than something mild like zinc and then stopping, THAT would be amazing

Yeah, I really wish I could see what was actually going on inside my brain... its hard to figure things out by subjective feelings, but it's all I can really do. If the zinc gluconate doesn't get me to where I want to be, I wonder if I could cycle on and off the more potent forms. It's not ideal, but it's so much better than feeling numb all the time.

I too hope others give zinc a try, especially if anhedonia is one of their main symptoms. I might be a unique case, but maybe there's someone else out there who could benefit.

[iggy131313]

I think cycling on and off would be a good idea in this case...use kindling to your advantage, have you found that the longer you take the more potant stuff the longer window you get after??

[jdmiller1]

I've been taking Zinc picolinate for about two weeks. Will take it for about another week. Hopefully once I stop I'll see some improvement similar to the kind that you've had. Crossing my fingers.

This article also mentions that there is an agonist/antagonist binding profile for zinc: https://www1.wfsbp-congress.org/wfsbp20 ... BSID=12034

It affects the post synaptic side as an antagonist, which is good for reducing PSSD symptoms. But the pre synaptic receptors which it reportedly agonizes are also important as heteroreceptors for dopamine release, so zinc might have mixed effects for PSSD overall.

[gatogordito]

I've been taking Zinc picolinate for about two weeks. Will take it for about another week. Hopefully once I stop I'll see some improvement similar to the kind that you've had. Crossing my fingers.

This article also mentions that there is an agonist/antagonist binding profile for zinc: https://www1.wfsbp-congress.org/wfsbp20 ... BSID=12034

It affects the post synaptic side as an antagonist, which is good for reducing PSSD symptoms. But the pre synaptic receptors which it reportedly agonizes are also important as heteroreceptors for dopamine release, so zinc might have mixed effects for PSSD overall.

How many mg's are you taking?


Update for where I'm at now:

I was taking 30 mg of zinc (gluconate) per day and it was helping quite a bit, but one night after eating dinner I had a sudden depression come over me and the anhedonia and PSSD came back. It felt like I was getting too much zinc again, so I decided to take a day off it and start cutting the tablets in half for 15 mg per day. Each day I felt better than before and by about 4 days after taking 15 mg/day I felt 100%. This lasted for a few days, but it then started to wear off and I was back to about 60% recovered. I would still get morning wood and orgasms were pretty pleasurable, but I wasn't quite where I wanted to be. I felt like either there is something going on with brain chemistry when the dosage changes, or maybe the optimal dosage is somewhere between 15 and 30 mg. So I decided I'd try cycling between 30 mg and 15 mg. I took 30 mg on one day and felt maybe 90%. I took another 30 mg the next day, and unfortunately had a bad reaction again after dinner. So now I'm gonna take a few days off zinc and see if I notice anything.

It is odd that I feel worse after a large meal. I've noticed that it usually occurs an hour after eating. From what I've read, plasma levels of zinc drop quite a bit after a meal.

It's very frustrating dealing with these ups and downs, but I feel there's definitely something to this.

[jdmiller1]

I've been taking Zinc picolinate for about two weeks. Will take it for about another week. Hopefully once I stop I'll see some improvement similar to the kind that you've had. Crossing my fingers.

This article also mentions that there is an agonist/antagonist binding profile for zinc: https://www1.wfsbp-congress.org/wfsbp20 ... BSID=12034

It affects the post synaptic side as an antagonist, which is good for reducing PSSD symptoms. But the pre synaptic receptors which it reportedly agonizes are also important as heteroreceptors for dopamine release, so zinc might have mixed effects for PSSD overall.

How many mg's are you taking?


Update for where I'm at now:

I was taking 30 mg of zinc (gluconate) per day and it was helping quite a bit, but one night after eating dinner I had a sudden depression come over me and the anhedonia and PSSD came back. It felt like I was getting too much zinc again, so I decided to take a day off it and start cutting the tablets in half for 15 mg per day. Each day I felt better than before and by about 4 days after taking 15 mg/day I felt 100%. This lasted for a few days, but it then started to wear off and I was back to about 60% recovered. I would still get morning wood and orgasms were pretty pleasurable, but I wasn't quite where I wanted to be. I felt like either there is something going on with brain chemistry when the dosage changes, or maybe the optimal dosage is somewhere between 15 and 30 mg. So I decided I'd try cycling between 30 mg and 15 mg. I took 30 mg on one day and felt maybe 90%. I took another 30 mg the next day, and unfortunately had a bad reaction again after dinner. So now I'm gonna take a few days off zinc and see if I notice anything.

It is odd that I feel worse after a large meal. I've noticed that it usually occurs an hour after eating. From what I've read, plasma levels of zinc drop quite a bit after a meal.

It's very frustrating dealing with these ups and downs, but I feel there's definitely something to this.

I’m taking 25mg of picolinate every day. So far I am seeing brief improvement a few hours before my next dose is due, so it seems to be showing some promise.

The experiences that you are having are in line with the fact that different types of zinc are absorbed at different rates and cross the blood/brain barrier with varying degrees of efficiency.

For example:

Picolinate Log(p) = -0.57
Gluconate Log(p) = -2.57

Log(p) is a measurement of whether a molecule dissolves in water or fat. It looks like picolinate is 4x better at crossing the blood/brain barrier than gluconate. Negative numbers mean that a molecule is more water soluble and positive numbers mean that it is more fat soluble.