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Gotu Kola (Centella Asiatica) and Bacopa on GluR1, 2 and NR2A, B

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:48 am
by enriqueiglesias
Taking Gotu Kola has always coincided for me with good to very good periods in libido and sensitivity.
Penile numbness is speculated to be partly caused by a "decrease in NR2B subunits on dendrites" (mentioned here: pssdforum.com/search.php?keywords=nr2*&terms=all&author=≻=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&sid=c76b0b2281c104d10e0229c0ef8c12e9&submit=Search) and the inhibition of mGluR2 (or very generally glutamate response).

Gotu Kola (Centella Asiatica) is found to increase NR2 subunits:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6557898/
"NR2A and NR2B are the major subunits of NMDAR, expressed in the rat hippocampus. ECa 233 at the dose of 30 mg/kg induced a dramatic increase in NR2A levels (Fig. 3A) [F(3,23) = 3.862, P = 0.030] and NR2B levels (Fig. 3B) [F(3,23) = 3.374, P = 0.045] compared to the control group. The levels of PSD-95, which is a scaffolding protein binding with both NR2 subunits, were significantly increased in ECa 233-treated rats at the dose of 30 mg/kg"

As well as AMPAR or GluA1, which I think work complementarily with mGluR2 (can't remember the study, but here is a part of the same study as just now):
"The 14-day oral administration of the extract at the dose of 30 mg/kg, but not 300 mg/kg, could enhance the expression of GluA1 subunit of AMPA receptor (AMPAR) in CA1 and CA2 subregions of the hippocampus along with the better learning and memory performances in the water T-maze task32. Recently, the same group reported the effects of the extract in higher doses (100, 300, and 600 mg/kg)."


I don't have very good aute experiences with Bacopa, in fact mostly negative ones, but possibly there are very good downstream effects. Since it has very similar benefits as the above:
Alterations in Hippocampal Oxidative Stress, Expression of AMPA Receptor GluR2 Subunit and Associated Spatial Memory Loss by Bacopa monnieri Extract
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4498885/
"Here, we demonstrate that DM2 mice treated orally with lower dose of CDRI-08 (50- or 100 mg/kg BW) is able to significantly enhance spatial memory in STZ-DM2 mice and this is correlated with a significant decline in oxidative stress and up regulation of the AMPA receptor GluR2 subunit gene expression in the hippocampus"

EDIT: I had to change this last quoted part, because I was choosing the wrong "glutamine transporter":

It even upregulates the VGLUT glutamate transporter, which is good for glutamate signalling (not "dehydrogenase", which I wrongly chose earlier).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27562725
"Receiving Brahmi after PCP restored cognitive deficit by increasing VGLUT3 in the prefrontal cortex and striatum. "


I personally recommend trying Gotu Kola (partly because it hasn't been given much attention yet). Right now I experience overall increased skin sensitivity and some penile sensistivity, although I haven't "tried it out" yet. However I also have taken one low-dose (single capsule) Capsaicin.
I believe Bacopa gives a mixed experience with lots of other receptors and transmitters, which is why its effects might be less immediate, but later just as good.

Re: Gotu Kola (Centella Asiatica) and Bacopa on GluR1, 2 and NR2A, B

Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:59 pm
by kpavel
Gotu Kola has potential cause it's used for memory, anxiety and skin issues. Maybe windows are really associated with reduced anxiety? However this herb is proposed as a contraceptive with lowered FSH.
So please watch these parameters.

Re: Gotu Kola (Centella Asiatica) and Bacopa on GluR1, 2 and NR2A, B

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:27 am
by enriqueiglesias
I corrected one part about the relevant glutamate transporter.

kpavel wrote:Gotu Kola has potential cause it's used for memory, anxiety and skin issues. Maybe windows are really associated with reduced anxiety? However this herb is proposed as a contraceptive with lowered FSH.
So please watch these parameters.


Don't know why you focus on "anxiety" particularly, when I already provided the quotes which are also accepted in this forum and were partly introduced here (though also partly more commonly known as side-effects from medications). I don't know what's the point of mentioning key things if one then doesn't look into anything that takes effect, to keep up an aura of mystery or whatever.
And you can't expect "helps against PSSD" to be part of the Amazon product information.

The effects I am talking about are more long-term (like 1 and a half week, receptor stabilisation) and in one specific area. The other effects are short-term or in any case I can't confirm. "Contraceptive" is a bit of an extreme wording, and I don't think that's true anyway, but it would seem to affect sperm quality, which I noticed nothing about (and I had more issues at many other times).

Again, I think Gotu Kola has a very noticeable glutamate receptor effect. Skin sensistivity, even pain sensitivity, go up over the whole body and I definitely notice more sensation in the groin, although I haven't gone all the way yet.

Re: Gotu Kola (Centella Asiatica) and Bacopa on GluR1, 2 and NR2A, B

Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:19 am
by kpavel
enriqueiglesias wrote:I corrected one part about the relevant glutamate transporter.

kpavel wrote:Gotu Kola has potential cause it's used for memory, anxiety and skin issues. Maybe windows are really associated with reduced anxiety? However this herb is proposed as a contraceptive with lowered FSH.
So please watch these parameters.


Don't know why you focus on "anxiety" particularly, when I already provided the quotes which are also accepted in this forum and were partly introduced here (though also partly more commonly known as side-effects from medications). I don't know what's the point of mentioning key things if one then doesn't look into anything that takes effect, to keep up an aura of mystery or whatever.
And you can't expect "helps against PSSD" to be part of the Amazon product information.

The effects I am talking about are more long-term (like 1 and a half week, receptor stabilisation) and in one specific area. The other effects are short-term or in any case I can't confirm. "Contraceptive" is a bit of an extreme wording, and I don't think that's true anyway, but it would seem to affect sperm quality, which I noticed nothing about (and I had more issues at many other times).

Again, I think Gotu Kola has a very noticeable glutamate receptor effect. Skin sensistivity, even pain sensitivity, go up over the whole body and I definitely notice more sensation in the groin, although I haven't gone all the way yet.


No,no, no! I fully support people looking for studies. You maybe noticed, I use some studies myself and my initial post is in research thread, that's why I pay so much attention to fsh and related. Why anxiety? When I began on pegym I heard it too often people explained to newbies their problems with either porn or anxiety. But this wouldn't count if we don't see here so many people with serious stress issues including myself, and Ghost even made a special post on this wave.
Do you mean Meso's post on numbness viewtopic.php?t=3185&p=31001 ? If you mean glutamate as skin sensitivity mediator (in opposition to GABA) it's absolutely true but not the only positive mediator (and not always positive). And why NR2b? Why not mglur5? Overally I find Centella Asiatica very interesting but was afraid to take because of above. Also this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25908624

By the way we may talk about different things. Meso wrote "It depends on what you mean by genital numbness.If you can feel touch, friction, pressure and heat sensations but not sexual stimulation, then it's a problem of low or absent libido.

If you can't feel (or much reduced) touch, friction, pressure, and heat sensation, then it's genital numbness. " You feel improvements in both aspects of feeling? May be itching?

Re: Gotu Kola (Centella Asiatica) and Bacopa on GluR1, 2 and NR2A, B

Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:30 am
by enriqueiglesias
Okay, here is what happened. I think it still works. However at first I took some glutamate and calcium channel antagonists, simply to rest my system momentarily. But then I took one calcium antagonist too many, not knowing it was one (OPC from grape seeds). When I tried to recover from this in a short time, I sort of crashed at first. But after one or two more days, I was improved again, also above my usual baseline. I think it's still consistently improving.

Aside from that, I've now added Boswellia Serrata/francincense extract, which has some similar actions as Gotu Kola, but without some of its side effects:
"Moreover, BS extract enhanced significantly the suppressed hippocampal level of GSH, SOD and glutamate receptor expression (GluR, NR1, NR2 A, and NR2B)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30396086

I first got interested in it as a demethylation agent, also with fewer side-effects than EGCG. I already had a good reaction on it once earlier, but I wasn't sure. At the moment I think it contributes to improvements and might be a full alternative to Gotu Kola.


Edit: I had removed my response, but for info, I never was about creating any ambiguity myself. I am talking about genital sexual sensitivity (or also "pleasure"), however independently of the vague or more general "libido" or sexual motivation, but also noticed overall improved skin or pain sensitivity. The overall skin sensitivity has decreased or perhaps normalized since then, but there is still improved sexual sensitivity. I am personally not interested in reporting exclusively "penis has improved non-sexual skin sensitivity", this is uninteresting to me and was never my strange, particular goal. The real focus was sexual sensitivity all along, as should go without saying, in my opinion. But insofar as I noticed any sensitvity (also overall skin sensitivity), of course I mentioned it as well.
Regarding skin sensitivity itself, I also mentioned low-dose Capsaicin. Maybe that is why it has normalized, since I didn't take any since then.

Re: Gotu Kola (Centella Asiatica) and Bacopa on GluR1, 2 and NR2A, B

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:56 am
by enriqueiglesias
I have repeatedly confirmed that Gotu Kola works short-term for sensitivity (same day, for 1-3 days or so). Bacopa I think is short-term no use for sensitivity (perhaps libido and arousal), but perhaps longterm a good support for Gotu Kola. (They are both traditional complements anyway.)
I have also narrowed down setbacks somewhat. About one spoon or 3-4 capsules of Gotu Kola (pure powder) is enough. After a while one can take a second spoon. However after that it can cause adverse reactions and let sensitivity drop back to normal/numbness. A similar curve of effectiveness is spoken of in a study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44867-z

There are a lot of different active compounds in this plant, possibly this explains the changing response.

It also makes one feel less lethargic overall, however one probably should balance it occasionally with glutamate- or calcium-inhibitors or anti-inflammatory stuff. And I wouldn't take it with Bacopa together, but at different times, like I said, Bacopa seems short-term no use and can make that felt (it might help libido and arousal somewhat).